Complete Marvel Reading Order


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PostPosted: April 29th, 2012, 3:52 am 
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Marvel in general, and the X-Men/mutant population in particular, seems to love forgiveness. No matter what you've done, the most heinous villains will be given at least one shot at a heel/face turn. In many cases, you can get more than one chance at it.

Now I kinda get this with the Homo Superior and their status as either a persecuted minority or an endangered species, we mutants need to stick together, but only to a point. Magneto is a flucking mass murderer, isn't he? I would have to do a little research to get the exact numbers, but how many lives has Sabretooth taken, and they're like, let's get him a bunk in the dorms...at our school for children.

Seems like DC doesn't engage in this as much. A DC guy might work with his adversary for a minute or two in the face of a greater threat, but Marvel's like: 'Hey, let's give these murdering villains a team communicator and a set of keys for the Quinjet.'

Understanding some of the narrative needs behind this, I still find it stretches my suspension of disbelief sometimes.

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PostPosted: April 29th, 2012, 3:57 am 
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Yea, it does seem weird. Of couse, that's how you get hawkeye, the swordsman, the black widow, etc.

But, there are times you have to wonder if Marvel heroes are about the most gullible people in the world.

THIS NEXT PART IS A SPOILER FROM THE AVENGERS MOVE. FAIR WARNING.

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They actually kind of address this in the avengers movie, well not the joining/turning thing, but the gullability. Loki tricks Thor with the same thing he did several other times and says "Will you ever not fall for that?"

Kinda sums up how I feel about Marvel characters at times.

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PostPosted: April 29th, 2012, 4:48 am 
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Well, we could go down a list of crimes committed, but Hawkeye was just a burglar I think. No documented kills that I'm aware of. And you could make a case that, say, Scarlet Witch and Pietro were just misguided extremists. Would have to research whether they might be peripherally involved in any fatalities.

But that is another question I want to raise: How much is too much? Superman, in modern continuity, is not cutting Luthor any breaks, and Bats is not letting Joker in the Batmobile anytime soon. So where do you draw the line?

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PostPosted: April 29th, 2012, 9:54 am 
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I think the benefit of Marvel's "second chance" program is that you get face time with characters you normally wouldn't. This gives the writers a shot at developing those characters that wouldn't necessarily be available if they had remained a villain.

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PostPosted: May 4th, 2012, 2:41 am 
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You might be able to write a thesis paper on it, but I think it's one of the facets of the differing philosophies between the two universes.

Marvel, as we all know, has a long list of villains-turned heroes. Hawkeye, Black Widow, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch (they never believed in Magneto's message or methods but they owed him their service because he saved their lives ... but they're complicit in destruction of what must be millions of dollars of US military property and the overthrow of a peaceful Central American government and the subsequent establishment of a totalitarian regime with Magneto as head of state), Swordsman, Medusa, Sandman, Sub Mariner, Vision, the Squadron Supreme (I think; I haven't read their introduction, but don't they start as Avengers villains?), the Thunderbolts, Gambit, etc etc etc

DC seems to have a much more deterministic view. There's a lot of crime busting and vengeance but not a lot of redemption. Heroes turn to villains but usually not the other way around. Look at Sinestro in the New 52, he's being set up as a hero but is anyone doubting they're going to turn him into the villain he is destined to be? The whole New 52 thing is actually kind of deterministic ... we are introduced to characters we know, some of whom haven't yet experienced things we know are destined to happen (because they're going to retell classic storylines).

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PostPosted: May 4th, 2012, 3:19 am 
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The Squadron Sinister, though they appear first, turn out to be evil versions of pre-existing heroes in an alternate universe, the Squadron Supreme. Although, the S.Sinister Nighthawk converts and becomes a long time Defender, so there you go.

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PostPosted: May 4th, 2012, 9:00 am 
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Although the entire reason for the Squadron Supreme is for to have a JLA analog go up against Marvel characters. I never have been able to buy them as stand alone characters. Nighthawk is eventually fleshed out into his own person, but even once he stops being a bad guy and helps the defenders, he is still a batman clone.

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PostPosted: May 4th, 2012, 1:16 pm 
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The alternate reality Squadron Supreme get their own limited series in 85 or around there, which I have read good things about. I'm not sure if you plan on including it but I'm definitely going to read it when the time comes.
I think it's easy to just write them off as cheap copies but so far I don't think they've been handled as such. The Squadron Sinister was a humorous jab at DC at a time when Marvel was outspoken in establishing themselves. The later series as I understand it is a serious examination of those characters who have greatly influenced the comics medium, Marvel included.

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PostPosted: May 4th, 2012, 4:42 pm 
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Add Sebastion Shaw to the list of second chancers. And he's quite a bad guy..

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PostPosted: May 4th, 2012, 11:22 pm 
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That's what bugs me about this Avengers vs Xmen series. It basically seems like Cyclops, an underage girl and a bunch of criminal/murderer types vs an Avengers squad that is full of guys who to my mind aren't Avengers. I haven't read any new stuff for a while, but c'mon. Thing? Red Hulk? Spidey? Daredevil? And is Wolverine really on that squad? Again I bemoan the blurring of the lines and the loss of the isolationism of old Marvel. Avengers and Xmen and Fan 4 all had their niches and their styles. Now I guess everybody can be on any and all teams they want. Call it Wolverine ubiquity writ large. As usual, I blame Bendis.

Shouldn't the president or SHIELD or NATO or the UN have authorized a strike on Cyclops and his reformed terrorism resort island?

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